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Post by Allison on Jul 19, 2018 13:17:14 GMT
The Originals- 5.12 'The Tale of Two Wolves' Discussion Thread
RETURN TO MYSTIC FALLS — With Hope facing a life-threatening affliction and deteriorating quickly, Klaus travels to Mystic Falls to seek help from Caroline. Tasked with keeping Hope preoccupied in Mystic Falls, Elijah comes to a heartbreaking realization about his niece. Meanwhile, at the Salvatore School for the Young and Gifted, a run-in with Alaric Saltzman throws a wrench into Klaus' plan.
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Post by daydreamer on Jul 19, 2018 16:57:46 GMT
The Originals- 5.12 'The Tale of Two Wolves' Discussion Thread
RETURN TO MYSTIC FALLS — With Hope facing a life-threatening affliction and deteriorating quickly, Klaus travels to Mystic Falls to seek help from Caroline. Tasked with keeping Hope preoccupied in Mystic Falls, Elijah comes to a heartbreaking realization about his niece. Meanwhile, at the Salvatore School for the Young and Gifted, a run-in with Alaric Saltzman throws a wrench into Klaus' plan.
They already know Hope is on borrowed time, so the heartbreaking realization will be that no matter what, Hope will never be able to forgive Elijah. I think she's smart enough to know the reasons behind it, but she just won't be able to forgive him.
I thought it was a little too obvious that Klaus would ask Caroline for Lizzie & Josie's help and that Alaric would stand in the way. Probably because of fears of "dark magic" infecting his own kids. But unless they change the mythology - which I wouldn't put past them - siphoning magic doesn't work that way. E.g., if you siphon magic from a vampire, you don't become a vampire. If you siphon off werewolf venom, you don't become infected with a werewolf bite. If you siphon a curse, you don't become cursed. So Lizzie and Josie siphoning off the Hollow shouldn't infect, or transfer, the Hollow to them. I wonder if Alaric will think it's too much magic for the twins, putting them in danger?
I thought Klaus was going to ask Caroline to help with Hope's transition, since she has first-hand experience.
And someone explain to me why they don't make Hope a moonlight ring? Did they run out of moonstones? Will a ring not work because "the Hollow?"
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Post by AJ on Jul 20, 2018 0:28:43 GMT
I thought siphoning just converted whatever it was into raw magic. Still, being that the Hollow is eating Hope alive, I'd understand Alaric's hesitation. Couldn't they siphon the Hollow and then use it to make a dark object (or ten)? Unless they want to go the 'Hope is the only one strong enough to contain it' route, in which case, screw you Plec.
Right? They could nip this transition thing in the bud with a moonlight ring. It is possible that the Hollow would kill it or make it unbearable, like Hope's magic bracelet.
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Post by daydreamer on Jul 22, 2018 19:30:25 GMT
I thought siphoning just converted whatever it was into raw magic. Still, being that the Hollow is eating Hope alive, I'd understand Alaric's hesitation. Couldn't they siphon the Hollow and then use it to make a dark object (or ten)? Unless they want to go the 'Hope is the only one strong enough to contain it' route, in which case, screw you Plec. Right? They could nip this transition thing in the bud with a moonlight ring. It is possible that the Hollow would kill it or make it unbearable, like Hope's magic bracelet. Of course they are. She's super-ultra special, remember? |
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Post by daydreamer on Jul 26, 2018 2:13:10 GMT
Please don't tell me that Elijah's heartbreaking realization about Hope was the fact that she can't drive...
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Post by tissuepaper on Jul 26, 2018 14:14:28 GMT
I'm glad the show is ending. I never watched TVD, but I feel like this season is catering more towards fans of that show while being a backdoor season for Legacies. Those that only watched TO are being ignored in favour of this. I liked the Hayley and Hope scenes. Also, isn't it sad that Hayley told Elijah that she's waiting for him, even though Jackson is there? So he'll be at peace seeing the woman he loves in the arms of another man? Doesn't that sound like hell for him? Also, it seems sad that Declan was so invested in their relationship and Hayley doesn't seem to care all that much about him. I hope Elijah doesn't die now, because that would be too cruel for Jackson and Declan (even though he's not dead). Elijah needs to live his life away from his brother and responsibilities and use all of this as a learning experience. Let him find Antoinette and try it again with her.
Do you guys think that Klaus gets a near death experience and meets Cami in the next life? Maybe that's when she'll show up. And she'll tell him to go live his life with the one he loves, while running away from his responsibility.
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Post by Daydreamer47 on Jul 26, 2018 14:55:50 GMT
I'm currently still wallowing in my tears of bitterness, sadness, and disappointment from what could have been.
Despite the amazing/wonderful Klaroline content, my tears are not happy tears. Just incredibly sad. And bitter.
But I have thoughts to share & will return to contribute to the discussion later tonight.
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Post by AJ on Jul 26, 2018 21:14:39 GMT
I'm glad the show is ending. I never watched TVD, but I feel like this season is catering more towards fans of that show while being a backdoor season for Legacies. Those that only watched TO are being ignored in favour of this. I liked the Hayley and Hope scenes. Also, isn't it sad that Hayley told Elijah that she's waiting for him, even though Jackson is there? So he'll be at peace seeing the woman he loves in the arms of another man? Doesn't that sound like hell for him? Also, it seems sad that Declan was so invested in their relationship and Hayley doesn't seem to care all that much about him. I hope Elijah doesn't die now, because that would be too cruel for Jackson and Declan (even though he's not dead). Elijah needs to live his life away from his brother and responsibilities and use all of this as a learning experience. Let him find Antoinette and try it again with her. Do you guys think that Klaus gets a near death experience and meets Cami in the next life? Maybe that's when she'll show up. And she'll tell him to go live his life with the one he loves, while running away from his responsibility.
I'm there with you about the show ending. This was the second to last episode and I had to make myself watch it. It feels so far from where we started, and this ep ended up being mostly an hour long trailer for the next spinoff. How big of an asshole do you have to be to pass a message to your ex about a dance while your husband is right there? Jackson got hosed, man. Though I am crying laughing, because Hayley's message could also be read as "kill yourself, Elijah". Which is probably what will happen, because any and all autonomy has been stripped from him. Thanks for the giant hammer to the brain that we'll get Elijah dying and joining her for that dance, Plec. Haylijah still sucks ass. |
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Post by AJ on Jul 26, 2018 21:16:14 GMT
I'm currently still wallowing in my tears of bitterness, sadness, and disappointment from what could have been. Despite the amazing/wonderful Klaroline content, my tears are not happy tears. Just incredibly sad. And bitter. But I have thoughts to share & will return to contribute to the discussion later tonight. I feel you. This show could have been amazing in more capable hands. |
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Post by daydreamer on Jul 26, 2018 23:52:22 GMT
It's the little things that bother me. Little writing inconsistencies.
Hayley to Stefan: "Oh, yeah, I think Klaus had a thing for her [Caroline]."
Bitch, you know damn well he did.
Caroline to Klaus in 5x01: "I'll see you at the next parent-teacher conference."
Implying that he was welcome to return to Mystic Falls; that she wasn't going to hold him to his previous promise never to return. And it made sense: his kid goes to her school.
Caroline to Klaus in 5x12:(paraphrashing) "You promised!"
Why bring that up in that manner? One, it's inconsistent. Two, there's a portion of the audience that doesn't have a damn clue what you're talking about.
I'm sure there's more, but I can't remember them all.
A word about coincidences in writing: there should be none. It's lazy writing. It's a gimmick used to justify a poorly planned plot.
But now suddenly Klaus has "the last remaining white oak stake?" Did he just now remember that he had it? How long has he had it? When did he get it? How did he get it? Did he not think to bust that baby out when Mikael came for him in Mystic Falls and then in NOLA? Why bring the stakes back into it? Why not use some of the poison thorns from Marcel's blood? There's more questions than answers here.
Watering-down previously powerful characters:
Remember when Freya was introduced? What a bad-ass! She was scary! And powerful. She turned vampire Esther into a flock of starlings, then killed them with a wave of her hand. But now she's utterly useless. Now she can't figure out how to defeat the Hollow.
You were so determined to turn Marcel into the beast; now he is and he's got what he's always wanted and he's more powerful than the Mikaelsons. But Nazi vampires get the jump on him. Okay.
And don't get me started on how they go back and forth on Klaus, Elijah, Kol, and Rebekah. One minute they're a bad-ass taking on mature, seasoned gangs, the next, a teenager manages to stake one.
Klaroline:
I love 'em. Love seeing them on screen and together again. To me, their chemisty is still on point and on fire. But I'll admit I'm not a huge fan of their dialogue in 5x01 and 5x06.
And this is what I was afraid of: hyping up Klaroline this entire season, baiting the Klaroline fans - and there's an almost kiss. There was no reason for them not to kiss in that moment other than Plec is a troll. And next week, if the Klaroline fans are lucky, we'll get an open-ended endgame.
5x012:
Sounds like it was a huge love letter to TVD. The glimpse of Elena's practice. Matt's bench. A Bonnie mention. A picture of Katherine (I don't understand - at all). Stefan's journal?!
This entire season - and I knew it would be - has been all about introducing Hope and turning her into a main character for her own spinoff. The issue I see is that when Klaus, Elijah, Rebekah, and Kol were introduced, viewers fell in love with them immediately. We were drawn in by them. We were intrigued and wanted to know more. We couldn't get enough. But Hope? I don't see that reaction. I see viewers excited they get to stay in the TVD/TO universe a little bit longer. I see viewers excited to have a supernatural school show. But to have Hope carry that show? I don't think the actress can do it. But what do I know? And I truly do not care. I have no plans to watch Legacies or keep up with it.
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Post by daydreamer on Jul 27, 2018 0:03:15 GMT
Also, isn't it sad that Hayley told Elijah that she's waiting for him, even though Jackson is there? So he'll be at peace seeing the woman he loves in the arms of another man? Doesn't that sound like hell for him? Also, it seems sad that Declan was so invested in their relationship and Hayley doesn't seem to care all that much about him. I hope Elijah doesn't die now, because that would be too cruel for Jackson and Declan (even though he's not dead). Elijah needs to live his life away from his brother and responsibilities and use all of this as a learning experience. Let him find Antoinette and try it again with her.
THIS so much! That was my first thought as well when I heard she was hanging out with Jack and Mary and whoever else. So, is she just passing time with Jack until her one true love, the one she's destinied for, shows up?! What the ever-loving pphhfff....
Does this mean that if Klaus dies and he's reunited with Cami, he'll only be with her until he can greet Caroline in death and be her last love? 
I swear, they're so freaking inconsistent. Jack and Mary were only there for fanservice - an easter egg. They should have had Hayley passing time with her parents.
I desperately want Elijah to live as well. To recognize that his feelings for Antoinette are valid. He loved her. He wanted to marry her. Sadly, I don't think that's going to happen.
If the spoiler I heard is true (and she's been right 100% for the past 2-3 seasons), it's a flashback/memory. But - I think it'll probably have something to do with love, moving on, finding love, don't be afraid to love, love isn't a weakness, it's a gift, it's powerful.
I have to admit, I'm not sure how they're going to do it. How Elijah is going to take Klaus' place. How Klaus will survive. How his absence - and Caroline's - is explained from Legacies.
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Post by Madamimadam on Jul 27, 2018 0:04:18 GMT
I'm glad the show is ending. I never watched TVD, but I feel like this season is catering more towards fans of that show while being a backdoor season for Legacies. Those that only watched TO are being ignored in favour of this. I liked the Hayley and Hope scenes. Also, isn't it sad that Hayley told Elijah that she's waiting for him, even though Jackson is there? So he'll be at peace seeing the woman he loves in the arms of another man? Doesn't that sound like hell for him? Also, it seems sad that Declan was so invested in their relationship and Hayley doesn't seem to care all that much about him. I hope Elijah doesn't die now, because that would be too cruel for Jackson and Declan (even though he's not dead). Elijah needs to live his life away from his brother and responsibilities and use all of this as a learning experience. Let him find Antoinette and try it again with her. Do you guys think that Klaus gets a near death experience and meets Cami in the next life? Maybe that's when she'll show up. And she'll tell him to go live his life with the one he loves, while running away from his responsibility.
I'm there with you about the show ending. This was the second to last episode and I had to make myself watch it. It feels so far from where we started, and this ep ended up being mostly an hour long trailer for the next spinoff. How big of an asshole do you have to be to pass a message to your ex about a dance while your husband is right there? Jackson got hosed, man. Though I am crying laughing, because Hayley's message could also be read as "kill yourself, Elijah". Which is probably what will happen, because any and all autonomy has been stripped from him. Thanks for the giant hammer to the brain that we'll get Elijah dying and joining her for that dance, Plec. Haylijah still sucks ass. LOL.. I bet the last scene will be Hayley and Elijah dancing. I feel bad for Jackson. I hope they show him a bit jealous at least instead of him being fine and happy for Hayley implying that since they are all dead and have forgone the "worldly jealous/anger/ resentment" feelings; All is kumbaya in afterlife. I am fine with Haylijah but yeah it still sucks considering all the angst they have gotten. So Hayley is not at all resentful towards Elijah that he caused her to die? IS it the kumbaya state of mind? |
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Post by daydreamer on Jul 27, 2018 0:04:52 GMT
Thanks for the giant hammer to the brain that we'll get Elijah dying and joining her for that dance, Plec. Haylijah still sucks ass.
Always and Forever.
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Post by AJ on Jul 27, 2018 0:20:30 GMT
I get tired of the one-sidedness. Hope mentions that Stefan's journal and whatever books Alaric wrote all depict Klaus as a villain and Elijah as his henchman. I'd bet all the white oak stakes Klaus keeps pulling out of his ass that none of them mention that time Alaric was an evil Original. Or that Matt/Elena/Jeremy killed Finn and Kol (and their entire sire lines). Or Hayley's part in the killing of hybrids. Or that time Elena literally stabbed Bex in the back, after pretending to befriend her. Stop telling me it's all the Originals' fault, because I know it goes both ways.
Agree about all of it, and I don't want to keep going with this universe because of it. Tired of the inconsistency. I'd have been fine with leaving it as it stood at the end of last season, with the family making the ultimate (for them) sacrifice of not staying together to ensure that Hope could grow up free and happy. Nothing about this season has made sense to me. And realistically, I don't think Legacies will last more than 3 seasons max. Hope is 15/16 right now, so how do they keep going with a magical school once she's graduated? They may bring in guest spots to old and loved characters (Girl Meets World did this), but I don't think it has enough power on its own.
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Post by AJ on Jul 27, 2018 0:31:05 GMT
IS it the kumbaya state of mind? My understanding is that you have to be at peace to reach it (from what Esther said about Jenna, and later on we see Lexi vanish into light as the Other Side was collapsing). But I find that to be kind of inconsistent, because Katherine was dragged to hell, and she had no qualms about the evil shit she did. Which should be the case for Elijah as well, with all the stuff he's got behind that red door he shouldn't be able to easily find peace. But I have no doubt now we'll get that schmaltzy reunion. |
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