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Post by Allison on Jun 18, 2018 11:23:05 GMT
The Originals- 5.09 'We Have Not Long To Love' Discussion Thread
TAKING THE POWER BACK — As Vincent, Marcel and Josh work to clean up the city, an uprising of purist vampires leads the supernatural factions into a deadly showdown. Hope's attempt to bring her family back together leaves her struggling with the consequences. Finally, Freya makes a life-changing decision.
Hope taking the risk makes sense with what she said earlier this season that all the sacrifices her family had made for her, she felt she had to be worth it and with her mother's death- the risk she could be consumed by the Hollow would be outweighed by the guilt of Hayley's fate and her family torn apart and a city threatened and all because of her. So I don't mind it- I mind that Aunt Freya enabled her but still in character for Freya, as Mikael's daughter who values certain things and what she's willing to gamble and expects- (I think Mikael would approve of what Hope did- testing her own strength and facing her enemy than avoidance) and think combined with the episode title, there's a high chance the prior predictions of Freya turning are accurate.
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Post by Daydreamer47 on Jun 21, 2018 2:44:35 GMT
Good grief. I never really paid that much attention before, but now that it's been brought to my attention - they love killing off females, don't they?
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Post by AJ on Jun 21, 2018 4:11:25 GMT
I wonder if it's a CW thing to kill off females. Supernatural is a mega-offender at this. Sadly, I think Keelin will bite it at some point in the final four episodes.
I'm beyond annoyed that these supremacists are being written as a threat, when really they shouldn't be. And I don't understand why they haven't been used to mop floors in Josh's bar. Bringing up Marcel once keeping the factions split and vampires in control might seem like a good point, but it also ignores sixteen years of progress. And poor Vincent, relegated to being the Alaric of NOLA - always losing his girl.
It looks like they're heading for Hope being able to contain the Hollow so long as she's allowed to blow off steam every now and then. I'm really losing faith they'll actually end the Hollow. Four episodes doesn't feel like long enough to wrap up both the Hollow and the effing Nazi vampires. But hey, now Declan's plot is wrapped!
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Post by daydreamer on Jun 21, 2018 23:59:17 GMT
I wonder if it's a CW thing to kill off females. Supernatural is a mega-offender at this. Sadly, I think Keelin will bite it at some point in the final four episodes. I actually think it's going to be Freya, not Keelin. I'm just thinking that there has to be some reason for Hope to return to MF. Why return if Freya is alive and well and able to teach her to control her magic? It's not like Hope was happy & had friends at that school. But if Freya dies, Hope needs help controling her magic - and supposedly Klaus/Rebekah/Elijah/Kol/Davina can't teach her, so ship her off to MF again.
THIS. Exactly this. Don't you dare mother freaking tell me that after 1,000 years and ALL the threats the Mikaelsons have faced, that Nazi Vampires will be their undoing. Screw that. This shouldn't even be a plot. This shouldn't even have lasted past two episodes. There is absolutely no reason - NONE - why Klaus & Co. shouldn't go hunting and kill every single one of them. They have the most legit excuse they're ever going to have: they killed Hayley - Hope's mother.
They'll slap Marcel in the face with his past actions, and rightly so, but can't do the same for Hayley. Sorry, still bitter that she never had to answer for her part in the killing of her friends/fellow wolves. I suppose the difference (excuse) is Marcel's infraction actually took place on TO, while Hayley's took place on TVD, but ...I'm stil bitter at that. I actually really hope that Hope finds out the truth. That her mother wasn't a saint.
She was already powerful without the Hollow. Now she's super-uber powerful? Ugh. I'm starting to wonder if they'll "kill" Hope at the end and her return as a hybrid for the spin-off. But I'm sure she'll be a hybrid with her witch power since she's another special. I wouldn't be a bit surprised if that happens.
Is Declan out now? That seems - anticlimatic.
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Post by Allison on Jun 22, 2018 0:48:13 GMT
Ratings for 5x09 "We Have Not Long To Love" are The Originals 0.3/1 in the 18-49 demo and 0.77M overall viewers. Declan feels like a complete waste of a character if we don't see him again, build up done for nothing. Hayley and the wolves on TVD were complicated- I doubt Hope is ignorant, it's just when your father is Niklaus and the rest of his family are who they are- Hope did everything to bring the dad she knew was slaughtering people back to New Orleans, she didn't then stand in a corner and moralize at him except for how he had shut her out. Tyler brought it up but Hayley was just the used instrument in that sacrificial magic as part of Silas's master plan to bring down the barrier to the Other Side- and had the hybrids succeeded in putting Klaus away, and things hadn't unfolded as they had, Hope wouldn't exist. But Klaus and Hayley are/were, everything to Hope so their wrongs are her blind spot which means she already has it better than her parents did.
They better not kill Freya... sigh- Freya could embrace life with Keelin, or they can still make her a vampire and unable to do magic. There's no reason to kill her off to establish Legacies, and they didn't know if they would get that spinoff. This angle with Hope seems more a case of Klaus and being a light as opposed to darkness, leading back to not just Season Three but the overall plot line Hope introduced in the series.
The Nazi vampires are underwhelming and I guess they're just meant to be a spark than a credible threat but... still on the fence with this now, especially since they were part of Hayley's death. I think I'd have a greater issue if killing or writing off female characters wasn't an industry wide issue. The CBS which is the CW's parent company is a horrific train wreck of cutting female cast members out to save money and treating them as second best- Ivy was a love interest brought in to die which is mundane and predictable in of itself- and the last time we had a cost cutting cast moment was in the third season- what happened with TVD was beyond the pale with Nina and neither Ian or Paul impress me much- both are weaker actors than Nina, and Paul having his now ex-wife cast in a role that was meant to move into a lead (Meredith was a major character in the books), causing his relationship breakdown to lose her... but industry wide really- look at Castle, it took fan backlash to cancel/finish the show when Nathan Fillion was going to get his way and get his co-lead, Stana Katic, axed from the next season as well as another female cast member out for cost cutting. It's the same stupid story across the entertainment industry- I game and games with female leads are a minority and there's always a reason why.
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Post by tissuepaper on Jun 22, 2018 2:50:20 GMT
I don't think Freya or Keelin are going to die, only because there was a spoiler about something happening with them.
Women die on this show, it's just the norm. We lost all of our female leads, so losing a few more is alright...not. Should we expect anything different? I think Josh's introduction really told us everything about the show. His female friend dies and he stays alive, even when he was meant to die early on. I don't even hate Josh as a character, but the writers saved him due to their love of the character but they continue bringing in interesting females only to kill them.
That being said, I do kind of understand it. The Originals has a female skewed audience and women like watching bad boy characters more than women. Every single female on the show has had major backlash towards them. Phoebe even had death threats, which is probably why we hardly had any screen time between her and Klaus in the earlier seasons. Aside from Rebekah, who can't be involved with our two leads, the others had fans hoping they'd die soon.
I feel like the nazi vampire mess could be easily solved, but for whatever reason they are refusing to do so. Klaus, Hope and all of the witches, normal vampires and werewolves in the city should band together to get rid of them. Hayley was a crescent and clearly did a good job keeping her people in check and maintaining peace. Everyone should be angry about it and killing everyone involved. (Save our leads) Since they're not doing that, I hope Declan finds out the truth and uses the dark items that Cami had to wipe them out. I don't know if that will be possible, but I do hope it is. I liked them together and I like Antoinette and Elijah together, so anything to establish the bond between Hayley and Declan would be great.
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Post by moonover on Jun 22, 2018 9:38:17 GMT
I am in shock. I found this episode stupid and boring. Like Klaus and Elijah would hesitate to wipe of the earth the culprits responsible to Hayley's death. Like Marcel wouldn't stop the vamps who were with act of war in his city.
I was expecting Ivy and Lianna to dye. Female characters are introduced to be killed of. And all this time on Declan . I suppose he isn't who he says he is,he is probably meant to be either a shock factor as the witch behind it all or they plan to send him with Hope as a guardian to MF on Legasies. Either way I don't care about him. They didn't sell us his relationship with Hayley.
I can't believe I am saying this as a hard core Original fan, but I kinda wish they ended last season.
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Post by daydreamer on Jun 22, 2018 19:41:14 GMT
I don't think Declan's story is over (unfortunately). I mean, why introduce him at all, much less as Cami's cousin, if this is how it ends for him? Nah, I have no doubt that somehow, he'll discover the truth. Someone will "kindly" tell him or he'll accidentally stumble onto Cami's secret closet and put 2 + 2 together. Then he'll discover the truth about Hayley and be pissed about that, so we have to go through his man-pain angst (bad enough when it's characters we know and love, but now we gotta deal with it from nobodies?). Then he'll blame Klaus/Elijah and in the name of "protecting" Hope, he'll join the Nazi Vampires. He'll probably survive - he is a man, after all, on a CW show - and see the error of his ways. He either stays in NOLA as the leader of the Human Faction or heads to MF to give Hope some sort of parental influence in her life.
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Post by AJ on Jun 22, 2018 21:19:36 GMT
Declan already knows some of it. He saw Hope assualting Elijah with magic, and Elijah outright told Declan that Elijah is a vampire and that Hayley wasn't human. And the Elijah compelled him to be at peace about things, so he won't have man-pain, because that's Elijah's territory now. I took his being related to Cami as a knife to Vincent, it did keep him from telling Declan about the supernaturals once he realized that. Because man-pain.
I wish they'd ended last season at this point as well. This season has just been so bad.
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Post by Allison on Jun 23, 2018 4:12:36 GMT
Declan already knows some of it. He saw Hope assualting Elijah with magic, and Elijah outright told Declan that Elijah is a vampire and that Hayley wasn't human. And the Elijah compelled him to be at peace about things, so he won't have man-pain, because that's Elijah's territory now. I took his being related to Cami as a knife to Vincent, it did keep him from telling Declan about the supernaturals once he realized that. Because man-pain. I wish they'd ended last season at this point as well. This season has just been so bad. Man pain is just angst- done right, it's decent for a story, done wrong, there are female characters who go through the same- Echo/Caroline from Dollhouse for example, her love interest was brain damaged and ultimately killed off simply for the angst factor than any significant story purpose. I think my crowing dislike for man pain goes to Xander of Buffy the Vampire Slayer, whose relationship with Anya was horrific by the end and she died simply to kill off a main cast member in the final episode. Xander's pain was always more valid and Anya's death was a note on his loss, we didn't see any of the other main characters facing the fact they had lost their friend- it was Xander lost the ex fiancee he dumped at the altar... there are far worse ways characters can go when it comes to angst. Elijah's going to have to fight for his niece not being consumed which has (regardless of cost cutting cast members) them use the character death constructively than purely for the angst factor. I think my perspective is based on how I felt about the last season of Charmed. I enjoyed it and there was a finality there that ending on the previous season would have deprived the series of, and enjoying threads enough as a whole but the cost cutting was severe and saving for the final episodes doesn't undo that there are elements they put in to pad the series, unlike Charmed- this season needed to be shorter than a thirteen episode count- probably seven when we're all said and done will have worked better for the show. But it's never been 'what's good for The Originals', the fact the CW panicked and had to bring it to a Wednesday timeslot or had to renew the show to start with since Season Two- it is what it is. Lucifer's cancellation and then save by Netflix has erased much need for me to watch network television and Legacies will have to knock it out of the bloody park at this point. I am sick of networks screwing shows up for their own purposes and canning anything unique. A YouTube channel summed it up the other day 'what is The Originals doing on the CW'- unique shows are often cancelled, dragged through the dirt or if they're very lucky, dragged out until they are half dead and then renewed every season, regardless. Supernatural has it bad- NCIS used to be a different, interesting crime procedural that has been destroyed from what it was at its core in the early seasons with basically a label these days to be 'different' and generic enough you can watch any episode brand new...I'm sick of being able to tell when things behind the scenes are causing issues with a show and having to be analytical, Declan's character as a whole on Legacies would be 'someone connected to the universe where we don't have to pay much to the actor'... I'll enjoy the end of the series but don't get me wrong, it's the lack of rose coloured glasses getting me there.
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Post by AJ on Jun 24, 2018 2:51:29 GMT
Ugh, Xander.
I would have been happy if Charmed ended after season 7. That ending was satisfying enough, even with the hidden identities. The last season was a trainwreck, from start to finish. I do feel this last season of TO is dragging, and they could have cut some of it short and been much better off for it. I really don't see how these supremacists are a legit threat and are still standing. It's sloppy. But they want to set up Legacies, and so we drag on.
Totally agree re: network TV just sucking lately. I couldn't even finish this last season of Supernatural. I don't know if it's the shows, or my attention span is just shit.
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Post by Allison on Jun 24, 2018 6:31:43 GMT
Ugh, Xander. I would have been happy if Charmed ended after season 7. That ending was satisfying enough, even with the hidden identities. The last season was a trainwreck, from start to finish. I do feel this last season of TO is dragging, and they could have cut some of it short and been much better off for it. I really don't see how these supremacists are a legit threat and are still standing. It's sloppy. But they want to set up Legacies, and so we drag on. Totally agree re: network TV just sucking lately. I couldn't even finish this last season of Supernatural. I don't know if it's the shows, or my attention span is just shit. Xander is a character I'd love to have seen set on fire. It had filler I'd rather have dumped the extra episodes with Charmed too- that way they could have had more Brain Krause (Leo) and focused heavier on the sister versus sister conflict, Christy should have been introduced day one because the idea of the final opponents for the Charmed ones having the same family bond was solid and Forever Charmed was good (cast issues aside)- Season 7's hidden identity end was like last season's finale, it still felt like a loss whereas at the end of the series, they had the lives they wanted as themselves, satisfying. The supremacists are filler to finale- a seven episode count and we wouldn't have this complaint- I think even just one extra episode to eight and they still could have set up Legacies with room to spare, so much of each episode has nothing to do with The Originals concluding or Legacies, it's filler. Supernatural has been reduced to twenty, either an expense thing, actor request or there's a chance we're getting closer to a final season announcement. Supernatural does okay season finales with so much useless filler and plots that go nowhere these days- it's hard to sit through. Oh, no- network TV is bad and because we don't have bad attention spans, it's harder because we can tell. I mean, showrunners have to explain things said ten times during an episode of any series these days so I'm not optimistic shows will get any better because the networks wouldn't dream of picking up anything decent or supporting the rare good show that gets through.
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