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Post by Allison on May 6, 2018 4:52:52 GMT
The Originals- 5.04 'Between the Devil and the Deep Blue Sea' Discussion Thread
THE SEARCH FOR HAYLEY — Frustrated by the lack of progress made in the search for Hayley, Klaus turns up the heat by taking hostages from each of the three New Orleans supernatural factions. Freya goes to Mystic Falls to check on Hope, who has been sent back to the Salvatore School. Vincent seeks guidance from Ivy after learning that Klaus' erratic behavior is escalating.
One of the longest episode titles, I had to cut a few words out but I think Vincent might end up being the one who lifts Elijah's compulsion since witches can and he may get desperate enough to do so if it's the difference between Klaus going off the rails and tearing the city apart...
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Post by AJ on May 6, 2018 6:45:14 GMT
Slight spoiler (?) below:
Depends on if you believe the spoilers some asshat in the writer's room posted. It said Elijah gets his memories back after watching Hayley burn. Which I'm puzzled on, because that wouldn't kill her, so I assume she's dead before she's lit on fire? I don't know, waiting to see if it happens, but it all seems to be pointing that way.
Marcel will be back in NOLA, so he can undo the compulsion. He knows exactly how. Remember in TVD when Alaric had to walk Elena through her memories of Damon to find the one that would erase her love for him were it changed? God, I hope we don't have to sit through something like that again.
I'm 90% sure the vamps took Hayley. That one redhead seems to be aiming to take over that faction. I don't know why Hayley would be afraid of them, though, she's a hybrid.
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Post by Daydreamer47 on May 6, 2018 12:59:51 GMT
I think there's two things going on:
1. Antoinette & Roman's "family" who want revenge on the Mikaelsons for some reason & they will use amnesia- Elijah to help them. But they have nothing to do with Hayley's kidnapping.
2. Devotees of the Hollow who took Hayley so the family would come together, despite knowing they can't/shouldn't. They want to free the Hollow & put her inside Hope again.
I was convinced that the Hollow story would be wrapped up by now, but now I'm not so sure. Now I'm wondering if they'll keep the Hollow as is & that's the reason Hope has to return to MF.
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Post by AJ on May 10, 2018 3:52:48 GMT
And once again the peace in NOLA is shattered. Thanks, Klaus.
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Post by Allison on May 10, 2018 12:31:21 GMT
Like father, like son. I'm loving the embrace of Marcel's character for exactly who he is this season- a Mikaelson. I can understand why Hayley is afraid of whoever has her captive and is mutilating her- this part is really dark and part of what makes it so horrible is the two fold, this is exactly what Klaus would do to people and that it's tied up in what she is, like Hope, Klaus and Marcel- that someone has such a problem with hybrids that to them it's a perverse twisted satisfaction to do what they're doing. The daylight rings taken out is an interesting choice, I guess we'll see more of the vampires at night. Klaus's consequences are catching up to him in the present instead of old mistakes- he is fortunate Freya's a witch but Vincent needs to stop putting things on Klaus and his family, innocent people got killed but what does he think whoever took Hayley was going to cause? Even without the Mikaelsons, the death of their alpha at the hands of vampires would bring an outright war to New Orleans and anything espousing a Nazi symbol probably isn't good for any of the supernatural factions of New Orleans either.
The peace in New Orleans was always going to shatter, they took advantage of what Hope did but they would have done something to cause turmoil for whatever their endgame is. They just got a helping hand from an emotional teenager.
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Post by AJ on May 10, 2018 22:17:35 GMT
I liked seeing Marcel take a tougher stance, it's been hinted at with the vamps seemingly questioning his every movement/action that he'd have to be more strict/hardass. Also, since daylight rings got to be so damn common, I'm really okay with them being taken away, even if it's only for a bit. I wish they'd stayed a special item.
Side note: I thought vervain and wolfsbane didn't work on hybrids? It didn't on Klaus - or was that because he's the Original Hybrid (tm)? Whatever. I'm still giggling at the idea of Nazi vampires. This show seems to be scraping that barrel.
Vincent isn't wrong though. Klaus escalated fast, and even though he had a plan and it gave him some valuable knowledge, it still ended in casualties. Had Klaus been more of a mind to work with the other factions, the peace between the factions may have held, but his actions exacerbated a tense situation, and left him without allies. That being said, I don't think the Hitler Vamps are out to start a war, just genocide.
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Post by daydreamer on May 11, 2018 0:47:18 GMT
Just as I'm tempted to actually start watching again, I hear "Nazi Vampires" and the temptation passes.  How on earth did that even come to pass? Like, it's the first day in the writer's room for S5, it's your last season and someone had the idea, "You know what would make this season awesome? Nazi Vampires." "You know who the big bad should be this final season? Nazi Vampires." They keep trying to make political commentary on today's issues and they fail every - single - time. Last season it was feminism; this season it's prejudice. It's been done! And Forever Knight did it better. Did they even try to come up with something more relevent? Did they just throw in the towel and say "screw it?" You didn't need to bring in a cliche. You had a tailor-made SL that could have worked, that would have been relevent. You could have had the surviving family members of the slaughtered hybrids from TVD join up with some witches who also had a grudge against the Mikaelsons and have the same SL. But you refuse to show Hayley as flawed. And if you didn't want to bring up the slaughtered hybrids, you still had a tailor-made SL that could have worked: a group of militant witches, devoted to the Hollow, working to get her free from the siblings and back into Hope. But no. Nazi vampires is the route you took.   |
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Post by daydreamer on May 11, 2018 0:50:09 GMT
Side note: I thought vervain and wolfsbane didn't work on hybrids? It didn't on Klaus - or was that because he's the Original Hybrid (tm)? Whatever. I'm still giggling at the idea of Nazi vampires. This show seems to be scraping that barrel. I thought vervain and wolfsbane did work on hybrids. In S2, Klaus needed Ansel to the the herb needed for Elijah while he was comatose and Esther had planted vervain all around the tree where it growed. If Klaus got hit with vervain and/or wolfsbane, he probably has a higher tolerance since he's older...maybe? Or they forgot their own lore again. Or just powered him up to move the story forward. |
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Post by AJ on May 11, 2018 1:59:01 GMT
I don't even know, man. The end of last episode was Klaus holding a coin that had the swastika on it and he was talking about a group he thought he dealt with. I'm assuming Nazi vampires, since the show hammered home that the vamp faction hadn't cooperated in finding Hayley.
I seem to remember Klaus saying it wouldn't work back in the TVD days, but I don't remember if it was just him or what. I've forgotten a lot of lore/details. I'm not about to rewatch to confirm, either, I'm not that much of a masochist. TVD forgot its own lore all the time *cough doppelgangers cough*
Unless it's a double whammy - you need both to subdue a hybrid, only one won't work? Idk.
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Post by Allison on May 11, 2018 4:13:15 GMT
Unfortunately this week with The Originals 5.04 "Between the Devil and the Deep Blue Sea", was 'The Originals (The CW) 0.3/1 in 18-49 and 0.76 M in overall viewers... not unexpected, given last week was a character centric heavy episode and we're still decent for the timeslot... in any case I have some DVR stats now for the Live +7 day ratings for the first two weeks. The season premiere went from 0.4 to 0.7 in the 18-49 demo with a 75% increase, overall viewers climbed 0.96M to 1.64M at a 65% increase and second episode went from 0.4- 0.8 in the 18-49 demo at a 100% increase and 1.02M TO 1.81M at a 77% increase in overall. I don't even know, man. The end of last episode was Klaus holding a coin that had the swastika on it and he was talking about a group he thought he dealt with. I'm assuming Nazi vampires, since the show hammered home that the vamp faction hadn't cooperated in finding Hayley. I seem to remember Klaus saying it wouldn't work back in the TVD days, but I don't remember if it was just him or what. I've forgotten a lot of lore/details. I'm not about to rewatch to confirm, either, I'm not that much of a masochist. TVD forgot its own lore all the time *cough doppelgangers cough* Unless it's a double whammy - you need both to subdue a hybrid, only one won't work? Idk. It had to do with how Esther cursed him at Mikael's request so he couldn't make hybrids despite breaking the curse on himself, needing to kill the Petrova doppelganger and then needing their blood to complete the transition for a hybrid. Hope was born through the will of nature so she can complete making hybrids independently without needing a Petrova doppelganger. The lore usually made sense, it was just very extensive and they tended to skip re-explaining for googly eye scenes. I'm more assuming it's vampires who were influenced by Mikael's way of thinking since we're supposed to have him in an episode this season- they may have identified with the Nazis but it's a vampire anti-werewolf thing... which goes back to the Mikaelson patriarch's influence. Hayley, unlike Hope or Klaus, is a normal hybrid except for being outside the original sirelines- she's fairly young by vampire standards and likely highly susceptible to both- you'd want to make sure and if you're anti werewolf and anti hybrid, you'll want to make things as uncomfortable as possible. I prefer them going into Mikael's potential influence on vampires and an anti werewolf/hybrid agenda rooted in Henrik's death and Esther's infidelity, his slaughter of Ansel and much of his pack than a more modern take on what happened back in TVD. A lot of things they had happen in TVD with the cast of The Originals was to make the TVD main characters look better... the hybrid sacrifice was about Tyler angst sadly more so than their deaths... I think by this point they've shown Hayley as pretty flawed- having her tortured and mutilated and possibly killed over the course of episodes, even off screen because of that would be the worst thing done to any character in TVD or The Originals given the far worse actions of the combined characters and would come off as some deranged death fetish. |
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