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Post by dstormborn on May 9, 2017 13:32:41 GMT
Wow I really liked this episode! The good stuff: Elijah bringing back the ancestors WITHOUT killing anybody, Marcel and Hope, Josh as Marcel, Freya finally admitting her feelings, the Hollow talks. Not so good: Josh and Vincent whining, Freya falling for a cheap trick, Dominic still seems more a bookkeeper to me and the kicker, Klaus completely failing as father with his lies and negating Hope a normal childhood. Plus it seems they're breaking up Elijah and Hayley, should he heed Vincent's words. Elijah killed 4 innocent girls and had no way of knowing the ritual would work (it almost didn't, but he didn't care). Josh and Vincent werent whining, everything they said was 100% true. But what do you mean by "negating Hope a normal child"? Kaus said that Hope doesn't need friends but will be worshiped.
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Ari
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Post by Ari on May 9, 2017 14:31:08 GMT
Man, the crescent mark on the Hollow's shoulder completely went unnoticed to me! I had to watch that scene with Sofya three times before I finally saw it. I'm glad y'all caught that.
Speaking of the Hollow, I definitely, definitely thought it was Davina at first.
I don't think I could've rolled my eyes any harder at Freya's blunder with Dominic. Her follow up conversation and kiss with Keelin was also very cliche. I'm trying to support them, but I just can't fully get behind their relationship.
I never cared much for Davina, but I gotta say, it gave me chills when Vincent called out to her for help. We'll see how reestablishing the link plays out - I feel like a lot of planning and conviction went into severing it last season, so undoing all of that didn't sit very well with me. I'm not sure what it means for Davina to be the gatekeeper though, so who knows. Maybe it'll be different.
I can't remember - did Hayley find out what Elijah did to those girls? Because I can't see her being cool with that at all. They came back to life, sure, but yeesh...talk about a gamble.
Overall, I quite enjoyed the episode. I think it was Charles's first time directing. He did a good job.
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Post by Madamimadam on May 9, 2017 15:39:41 GMT
Man, the crescent mark on the Hollow's shoulder completely went unnoticed to me! I had to watch that scene with Sofya three times before I finally saw it. I'm glad y'all caught that. Speaking of the Hollow, I definitely, definitely thought it was Davina at first. I don't think I could've rolled my eyes any harder at Freya's blunder with Dominic. Her follow up conversation and kiss with Keelin was also very cliche. I'm trying to support them, but I just can't fully get behind their relationship. I never cared much for Davina, but I gotta say, it gave me chills when Vincent called out to her for help. We'll see how reestablishing the link plays out - I feel like a lot of planning and conviction went into severing it last season, so undoing all of that didn't sit very well with me. I'm not sure what it means for Davina to be the gatekeeper though, so who knows. Maybe it'll be different. I can't remember - did Hayley find out what Elijah did to those girls? Because I can't see her being cool with that at all. They came back to life, sure, but yeesh...talk about a gamble. Overall, I quite enjoyed the episode. I think it was Charles's first time directing. He did a good job. Vincent was always pro Davina besides Josh. Marcel saw reason while dealing with her. So yeah I was not surprised when he asked her for help. He thinks she is a good person. I think Vincent thinks that since she is the gatekeeper the ancestors cannot interfere without her permission unlike last time when they were doing it right and left. I dont think Vincent ever thought of reestablishing the link OR maybe he did but he couldnt bring himself to do what Elijah did (I remember him and ELijah talking in church and him saying to Elijah that he does not know what he is talking about. I guess he knew killing will be required). Elijah forced his hands later. Did Elijah know that he was trying to establish the link when he sacrificed those girls, I cannot recall? I think he might have know but he risked everything. So I guess we are supposed to see Elijah as the hero who solved the problem? No, Hayley does not know what Elijah did. No one except for Vincent knows what has really happened. Vincent didnt tell Josh, I wonder why? I have doubt that she will ever know but since MN has already hinted that EH has a rough road going ahead this season, I think they might just tell Hayley, bts most probably. This is new Haylijah angst and NO you are right she will not be okay with what he did but she will come round since he girls came back. Freya and Keelin is fanservice. Even Carina admitted that. It is too forced. I am on board JUST BECAUSE Keelin might just show Freya that she can have a normal life away from this mess. Charles did an excellent job. I just wish there was more lighting. I mean in the scene when it is morning time.
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Ari
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Post by Ari on May 9, 2017 17:30:44 GMT
Oh, I think Davina is a good person too - I just didn't like her much, for reasons I won't bother getting into here. But I can understand and appreciate the relationships she had with other characters (ie. Marcel, Vincent, Josh), and I certainly didn't want her to die! That scene with Freya last season broke my heart.
I believe Vincent thought about reestablishing the link, but didn't want to pursue it because a) the ancestors are assholes, b) the Harvest wasn't a ritual that his coven practiced, so he knew the sacrifice probably wouldn't be accepted, and c) he was wholly against asking parents to offer up their daughters for the ritual. Elijah wanted to recreate the Harvest anyway, so he "took care of" the only part of the ritual that he remembered from Davina's time as a Harvest girl: sacrificing four young witches. I love his character, but come on; he didn't appear to think about the finer intricacies of the spell and was surprised when blood started coming out of his eyes. The only reason why the spell worked was because Vincent reached out to Davina in a last ditch attempt and she accepted the offering.
Yes, forced is a good word to describe how the Freya/Keelin relationship feels. I also feel like Freya's bisexual orientation kind of came out of nowhere - unless they've hinted at it before in previous seasons and I missed it?
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Post by Madamimadam on May 9, 2017 18:28:57 GMT
Oh, I think Davina is a good person too - I just didn't like her much, for reasons I won't bother getting into here. But I can understand and appreciate the relationships she had with other characters (ie. Marcel, Vincent, Josh), and I certainly didn't want her to die! That scene with Freya last season broke my heart. I believe Vincent thought about reestablishing the link, but didn't want to pursue it because a) the ancestors are assholes, b) the Harvest wasn't a ritual that his coven practiced, so he knew the sacrifice probably wouldn't be accepted, and c) he was wholly against asking parents to offer up their daughters for the ritual. Elijah wanted to recreate the Harvest anyway, so he "took care of" the only part of the ritual that he remembered from Davina's time as a Harvest girl: sacrificing four young witches. I love his character, but come on; he didn't appear to think about the finer intricacies of the spell and was surprised when blood started coming out of his eyes. The only reason why the spell worked was because Vincent reached out to Davina in a last ditch attempt and she accepted the offering. Yes, forced is a good word to describe how the Freya/Keelin relationship feels. I also feel like Freya's bisexual orientation kind of came out of nowhere - unless they've hinted at it before in previous seasons and I missed it? They have hinted on it before. Lol said to freya she he met her in present time for the first time that he back in 1915 when he saw her first time he thought that she was into girls. I think davina is true evil. Her being human and the dabbling in dark magic esp for revenge and all that she did was far. Others lost their humanities in their immortal life. She list it in her human life. A young girl of 16 shouldn't be this bitter and lose her morals so easily.
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Post by ceraleigh on May 9, 2017 20:04:03 GMT
Oh, I think Davina is a good person too - I just didn't like her much, for reasons I won't bother getting into here. But I can understand and appreciate the relationships she had with other characters (ie. Marcel, Vincent, Josh), and I certainly didn't want her to die! That scene with Freya last season broke my heart. I believe Vincent thought about reestablishing the link, but didn't want to pursue it because a) the ancestors are assholes, b) the Harvest wasn't a ritual that his coven practiced, so he knew the sacrifice probably wouldn't be accepted, and c) he was wholly against asking parents to offer up their daughters for the ritual. Elijah wanted to recreate the Harvest anyway, so he "took care of" the only part of the ritual that he remembered from Davina's time as a Harvest girl: sacrificing four young witches. I love his character, but come on; he didn't appear to think about the finer intricacies of the spell and was surprised when blood started coming out of his eyes. The only reason why the spell worked was because Vincent reached out to Davina in a last ditch attempt and she accepted the offering. Yes, forced is a good word to describe how the Freya/Keelin relationship feels. I also feel like Freya's bisexual orientation kind of came out of nowhere - unless they've hinted at it before in previous seasons and I missed it? They have hinted on it before. Lol said to freya she he met her in present time for the first time that he back in 1915 when he saw her first time he thought that she was into girls. I think davina is true evil. Her being human and the dabbling in dark magic esp for revenge and all that she did was far. Others lost their humanities in their immortal life. She list it in her human life. A young girl of 16 shouldn't be this bitter and lose her morals so easily. Tormented, used and attacked by a bunch of old freaks all vIr their own selfish agendas (witches and vampires), nearly killed, killed, forced to watch her friends suffer and get killed just because she wont lie down and let people abuse her... yeah she's the evil one.
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Post by Madamimadam on May 9, 2017 20:21:19 GMT
They have hinted on it before. Lol said to freya she he met her in present time for the first time that he back in 1915 when he saw her first time he thought that she was into girls. I think davina is true evil. Her being human and the dabbling in dark magic esp for revenge and all that she did was far. Others lost their humanities in their immortal life. She list it in her human life. A young girl of 16 shouldn't be this bitter and lose her morals so easily. Tormented, used and attacked by a bunch of old freaks all vIr their own selfish agendas (witches and vampires), nearly killed, killed, forced to watch her friends suffer and get killed just because she wont lie down and let people abuse her... yeah she's the evil one. What happened to Davina was tragic but she was predisposed to the idea of doing evil. She was hell bend on revenge even after Marcel saved her and that was way before Klaus came into the picture. She hated Klaus and CO before even she met them. She was willing to do anything to kill Klaus ad she did. As a human and with humanity alive, she should have known better IMO. Also she dabbled in DARK magic knowing what she was doing was evil and she didnt care. Granted others do the same thing but they are not human. I except a human to behave differently than an animal/ monster. Anyways it is matter of opinion. We can agree to disagree on if Davina was true evil or not.
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Post by ceraleigh on May 10, 2017 15:02:39 GMT
Tormented, used and attacked by a bunch of old freaks all vIr their own selfish agendas (witches and vampires), nearly killed, killed, forced to watch her friends suffer and get killed just because she wont lie down and let people abuse her... yeah she's the evil one. What happened to Davina was tragic but she was predisposed to the idea of doing evil. She was hell bend on revenge even after Marcel saved her and that was way before Klaus came into the picture. She hated Klaus and CO before even she met them. She was willing to do anything to kill Klaus ad she did. As a human and with humanity alive, she should have known better IMO. Also she dabbled in DARK magic knowing what she was doing was evil and she didnt care. Granted others do the same thing but they are not human. I except a human to behave differently than an animal/ monster. Anyways it is matter of opinion. We can agree to disagree on if Davina was true evil or not. She went after witches season 1 because Marcel manipulated her and told her she had to kill if she wanted to live, all so he could use her power to take control of the city. She hated Klaus and others because of what Marcel told her, about what they "did" to him. Being a vampire doesn't excuse their actions, they still have humanity they just choose not to care. Davina was a teenage girl who was tormented constantly and taught to be a killer by someone who was supposed to be protecting her. She got into dark magic because she was out of options. Everything and everyone else had abandoned her. Marcel made Davina the way she is, he needs to learn to take responsibility for his actions.
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Post by Madamimadam on May 10, 2017 18:07:27 GMT
What happened to Davina was tragic but she was predisposed to the idea of doing evil. She was hell bend on revenge even after Marcel saved her and that was way before Klaus came into the picture. She hated Klaus and CO before even she met them. She was willing to do anything to kill Klaus ad she did. As a human and with humanity alive, she should have known better IMO. Also she dabbled in DARK magic knowing what she was doing was evil and she didnt care. Granted others do the same thing but they are not human. I except a human to behave differently than an animal/ monster. Anyways it is matter of opinion. We can agree to disagree on if Davina was true evil or not. She went after witches season 1 because Marcel manipulated her and told her she had to kill if she wanted to live, all so he could use her power to take control of the city. She hated Klaus and others because of what Marcel told her, about what they "did" to him. Being a vampire doesn't excuse their actions, they still have humanity they just choose not to care. Davina was a teenage girl who was tormented constantly and taught to be a killer by someone who was supposed to be protecting her. She got into dark magic because she was out of options. Everything and everyone else had abandoned her. Marcel made Davina the way she is, he needs to learn to take responsibility for his actions. Everyone has options. They could leave this god forsaken place. Like Cami she Davina had nothing binding her to this place. They She had no family left. Her friends were Marcel and Josh and then later Cami. If she was old enough to chose to do dark magic then she was old enough to pack up and leave and have a normal life OR she could have chosen to not take the revenge- become a bigger person. But she did and as a human who was until that sacrifice raised with love (from all we know of her past she was not a tortured child) so this kind of revenge shouldnt even have entered her mind. Davina got into this mess coz of her stupidity at staying in this place and then getting suck into dark magic by choice esp when she fell in love with Kol after five minutes of meeting him and then she went to extreme to bring him back. Davina and Cami cannot blame others for what happened to them. NOt saying that others are innocent but they have to take responsibility of their actions esp when they both were human and their humanity should have kept them away from these monsters and their acts. Like I said, it is a matter of opinion.
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Post by tissuepaper on May 10, 2017 20:22:19 GMT
Marcel admitted to loving Klaus. Yay! Klaus and Marcel coming to a truce, even thought they both refuse to just talk about their issues. Would it kill Klaus to say that he loves Marcel too? Hope knows a lot more about what's going on, but is playing dumb for her father. The Khayley scenes were nice. Klaus is the worried parent who is afraid of everything and Hayley is just chill. Granted, she had more time with Hope, but still it's funny seeing their dynamic. It's also nice seeing how much they've grown since the first season. From hating each other to laughing at the end. Elijah...I don't know what he's doing. I don't know if he even knows what he's doing. I like his interaction with Vincent, but wow did he really think killing four girls (kids really) would be okay? It's almost like he doesn't know how the witches act like when here. It did work out thanks to Davina, but wow. The Ancestors are back, I guess. Even though they're kind of evil I get why they were needed to be brought back. It was because of them that the Hollow stayed back a bit, but if the enemy of my enemy is my friend then what does that make Vincent who is dealing with the enemy of his enemy who is also the enemy of his other enemy? I hope this doesn't mean he's going to die. I like him and hope he lives. Speaking of the ancestors, I wonder if this means we'll see Celeste again? So the Hollow is a Crescent? I liked Josh in Marcel's body. It was funny and I liked that Charles changed up how he spoke so it felt like Josh. I don't care about Freya and Keelin, but that's only because I'm anti-romance on this show since they can't write it properly. I also liked that we had a scene with Hayley and Hope, because it's been awhile. Sofya is possessed now. When the Hollow first spoke it kind of sounded like Davina. The preview for the next episode has me really excited. Poor Kol though. He just left and now his girlfriend will be back. Davins is not coming back. We will always see her in the ancestral plane IMO like in the next episode. Klaus and Hayley go to ancestral plane. I know, but she's there at least and he could have just went down for a visit here and there.
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Post by tissuepaper on May 10, 2017 20:26:12 GMT
What happened to Davina was tragic but she was predisposed to the idea of doing evil. She was hell bend on revenge even after Marcel saved her and that was way before Klaus came into the picture. She hated Klaus and CO before even she met them. She was willing to do anything to kill Klaus ad she did. As a human and with humanity alive, she should have known better IMO. Also she dabbled in DARK magic knowing what she was doing was evil and she didnt care. Granted others do the same thing but they are not human. I except a human to behave differently than an animal/ monster. Anyways it is matter of opinion. We can agree to disagree on if Davina was true evil or not. She went after witches season 1 because Marcel manipulated her and told her she had to kill if she wanted to live, all so he could use her power to take control of the city. She hated Klaus and others because of what Marcel told her, about what they "did" to him. Being a vampire doesn't excuse their actions, they still have humanity they just choose not to care. Davina was a teenage girl who was tormented constantly and taught to be a killer by someone who was supposed to be protecting her. She got into dark magic because she was out of options. Everything and everyone else had abandoned her. Marcel made Davina the way she is, he needs to learn to take responsibility for his actions. Do you think that this is where some of the angst from Marcel is coming from? He feels like Klaus failed him as a parent, but when he was looking after Davina, who he considered a daughter of sorts, he failed her too and is the main reason why the ancestors wanted her dead.
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