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Post by Madamimadam on Mar 14, 2017 21:35:22 GMT
I wish I could say I was happy with the finale, but as a Stefan fan, I feel his character was completely trashed to service other characters/couples. I see no reason why Stefan's actions were so awful that he had to die to be redeemed for them, but Damon's actions weren't. And as a former Klaroline fan, I wish I could say that I enjoyed the letter, but again, it felt disrespectful to Stefan's character. It also felt disrespectful to Camille's character and everything she and Klaus had on TO. Also, I feel like whatever connection Klaus and Caroline had, their moment has passed and the writers need to stop beating that horse. I feel like, realistically, those two would have moved on from each other a long time ago.All of this has me a little bit wary of what will happen on TO this season. ^ all this. It was unrealistic to imagine that Klaus will never move on from Cami since he is an immortal but this Klaroline came out of blue after that breakup build up during last three seasons not to mention it came too quickly after Stefan and Camille . On top of that for it to happen they HAD to kill Stefan which honestly damaged Klaroline. Not that it matters to the fans of that ship. This is what TO/ Tvd does. Kill a ship or damage a relationship to prop another relationship or character. So Alaric crossover happens in 408. I think this is how things will go down....something happens in that which will bring the letter in the picture. Caroline will response/ come to NOLA probably in the finale of TO. A major few months after Stefan was killed. No, I dont want her to mourn all her life but this is disrespect to Stefan to fall in love with someone so quickly. Edit: so it seems like there will be bts time jump in tvd or at end of TO coz Klaus writers that letter to Caroline 1.5 years after Stefan's death. From my understanding at this current RTL Tvd is still a year behind TO time line which apparently will be caught by the time TO starts or by the time 408 airs. That does justify Kc baiting and why Stefan was killed at the end of Tvd. Coudnt do it bts with him being human and all. Anything can be used to explain his death. They didnt have to show it to viewers. Double Edit : So Carina clarified the time line. TVD did a time jump at the end. When To comes back it will be a years after Stefan's death. School has been open for that long. So by the time Klaus write that letter that will be 1.5 years since his death. Apparently JOMO didnt know when the letter will be revealed so he and a reporter spend some time during interview to figure out the time line. The reporter posted the tweet. After some time Carina posted this clarification. Height of inefficiency if things are cleared on twitter but this is nothing new. lol
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Post by cocogurl on Mar 14, 2017 22:02:03 GMT
Exactly. I would never expect Klaus and Caroline to mourn their lost loves forever, but I don't think it would be this fast. Especially Klaus, who feels love and loss so deeply. And they shouldn't have built up Klamille as this epic, life-changing love if they really wanted me to believe that he's still holding on to the idea of him and Caroline. But you're right. This is what the writers do and it's so frustrating because it takes me out of the story and ends up making the characters look bad.
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Post by Madamimadam on Mar 14, 2017 22:09:14 GMT
Exactly. I would never expect Klaus and Caroline to mourn their lost loves forever, but I don't think it would be this fast. Especially Klaus, who feels love and loss so deeply. And they shouldn't have built up Klamille as this epic, life-changing love if they really wanted me to believe that he's still holding on to the idea of him and Caroline. But you're right. This is what the writers do and it's so frustrating because it takes me out of the story and ends up making the characters look bad. I am not a Klamille fan. I do think that he loved her but not IN LOVE with her which is something I never understand (difference between in love and love) but that is to discuss at some other time LOL. I never bought that he romantically loved her but yes basically through this letter the writers just confirmed that his feelings for Caroline were still there and whatever he felt for Camille was not that deep. He was just bidding his time with Camille which is an insult to Camille and romantic Klamille.
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Post by daydreamer on Mar 15, 2017 0:27:58 GMT
Annnnd I finally figured out how to quote cleanly!
Of course Stefan deserved better. But I don't think Stefan was killed off because of his past actions. I think they decided to kill off Stefan because it came full circle: Stefan forced Damon to become a vampire. In the end, Stefan forced Damon to take the cure so Damon could live his HEA with Elena.
I don't think there's any intentional disrespect to Stefan or Cami. The show should have done a better job SHOWING the passage of time so that it didn't look like Klaus wrote a letter to Caroline immediately after escaping Marcel's clutches or immediately after you see Klaus hallucinating and screaming for Cami. But this is a HUGE issue both TVD and TO have: they don't always SHOW. It looks good on paper, but the final execution (what viewers see) fails. And so we get tweet-storm explanations to clarify events.
As a huge Klaroline fan, it is perfectly obvious (to me) that Caroline isn't giving Klaus a second thought. I think it's just as obvious that Klaus isn't sitting around pining for Caroline. He fell for Cami. He liked her; maybe he even loved her (I honestly can't judge since I didn't watch S3). But she died. Unless they bring her back "because MAGIC," that ship is sunk. He's not going to pine for Cami the rest of his life any more than he's sitting around pining away for Caroline.
A year after Klaus escapes Marcel's clutches, he hears about the school; he likes what she's doing; he writes her a note and sends a donation.
He's not actually pursuing her at this moment. She's not running to NOLA to personally thank him. She's not suddenly in love with him because he sent her money. He's not calling her; he's not visiting her; he's not demanding something in exchange.
He's not pining for her, but I believe in my little shipper heart that Caroline is never far from his thoughts and that he still hopes to be with her one day - and be her last love.
I will also say that I had an epiphany last night about Klamille: it had to happen. There's no doubt that Cami, a decent, moral person (despite the show's attempts to show her as 'dark'), loved Klaus. She loved him at his lowest point. Despite everything, including common sense, she loved him. That's important because she showed him that he is worthy of love - he just has to be open to it. I don't believe that Cami is his conscious or anything like that. I don't believe that he'll stop and think every time before he kills/maims/threatens someone, "What would Cami say?" (although I 100% expect someone, likely Hayley, will say that to him at some point during this season). But Cami's love showed him that he is worthy of love. And I think that will be a major factor for him in moving forward with his family and future loves.
I believe that you can have more than one soulmate, especially if you're an immortal. I believe that once all the drama dies down, given the chance, Caroline could fall in love with Klaus.
There is not going to be some big epic unexplained or undeveloped Klaroline moment at the end of TO S4. I honestly don't see that happening. I see it being along the lines as it was in TVD. Some small moment; maybe Caroline writes him a note to thank him for the donation (plausible) "and he smiles."
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Post by cocogurl on Mar 15, 2017 1:43:05 GMT
I think the problem is JP and KW and what they've been saying in interviews about it. They pretty much state that after the things that Stefan has done, this was the only way in their eyes that he could be redeemed. And I don't even like the idea of him dying so that Damon could be happy with Elena. Because that means that, once again, Stefan is sacrificing his happiness and his dreams so that his big brother to have everything, and imo, Damon is no more deserving than he is of happiness. I feel like they have double standards when it comes to the Salvatore brothers and it's always been something that bothered me. I was never a Steroline fan, but I did want Stefan to find happiness for once. And I don't think they intended to be disrespectful either, but I feel like when they're fan baiting, they don't really care that much about it either. And to me, adding the whole "however long it takes" line was total fan baiting. I don't mind time jumps in most cases because it can be an effective way to move the story along, but in this instance it doesn't work for me. Though the writers didn't care that much about Stefan (at least that's the impression I get) a lot of people did. And even though the characters timed jumped, the writers should remember that audience has not. So witnessing Stefan's unfair demise and then moments later sprinkling in a Klaroline forshadowing just seems disrespectful to Stefan's character. And it really does feel like his character was sacrificed to service other ships. And sadly, I think the same thing will happen with Cami's "ghost" in season 4. I never expected Klaus to mourn her forever, but I do think character-wise, it makes sense that it would take him awhile (a bit longer than five years) to be ready for another big LI. I won't get into the argument of whether or not he was in love with Cami because that could go on forever. Lol. But I do feel that he was and I don't trust the writers not to shove that aside, or worse, use it to give some Klaroline forshadowing. But we'll see what happens. I do love discussing all of this, though.
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Post by daydreamer on Mar 15, 2017 14:32:16 GMT
I completely agree.
They absolutely do. For JP & co., it's always been all about Damon/Delena.
Loved their friendship; hated their romance. I wish there could have been a way for Stefan to find happiness. In a sense, he did. I think he was genuinely happy to make that sacrifice for his brother. And no doubt he was happy to see Lexi again. It's a round-about way of looking at it, but...
They absolutely are and they care about ratings. Tons of Klaroline fans now believe that Caroline is crossing over to TO this season and they will watch (especially since Cami is now dead). Even if she doesn't crossover this season, they believe, thanks to that letter and thanks to the fan-baiting JP & Co. are doing, that she will eventually cross-over (in upcoming S5 if there is one). And if there isn't an S5, they believe that Klaroline will be together in the spin-off.
Personally, I believe S4 is the last and that the spin-off won't happen. I believe there will be a small Klaroilne moment at the end of TO S4. And if TO really wants to piss off an entire fandom (because they don't care), then Klaus will either die and find peace with Cami, "and he smiles" or he feels her presence "and he smiles."
But I don't think that will happen.
I think if it was any other character than Caroline, you would be spot-on. But it's Caroline. And again, he's not pursing Caroline in that moment. The Klaroline moment on TVD and upcoming in TO will just be a small moment that will be open for interpretation.
They've got 13 episodes and they've got to drive the story forward. A huge part of the story will be Klaus reuniting with his family, including his daughter; then spending the rest of the season protecting her and taking down enemies.
Cami's death isn't going to drive the story forward like Elena's coma did and Cami's presence isn't going to be felt like Elena's presence was during her coma. Cami will appear for a few moments in 4x01 and her name might be mentioned once in a "What would Cami say?" context. Maybe twice if they show Marcel and Klaus fighting and Marcel throws out, "Cami's dead because of you."
So yes, it might be seen as the writer's shoving Cami/Klamille aside, but again - 13 episodes. They can't spend an abundance of time with shots of Klaus grieving/mourning.
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Post by cocogurl on Mar 16, 2017 19:28:29 GMT
Oh, I agree. With thirteen episodes, I don't think they should spend the entirety of it dealing with Klaus' grief. But I also don't think they should be in such a rush to start pushing another love interest (even if it is Caroline). And while you're probably right, that it'll probably just be some small moment, my lack of faith in the writers has me constantly prepared to be disappointed. Lol. And still, I just don't buy that he's still hanging on to their "however long it takes moment" after everything that's happened--which is what the letter implies. But this is just me.
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